Dan is a CEO, Founder, Author, Martech and Marketing Analytics Leader! Dan is the CEO and Founder of Effin Amazing

I have been a huge fan of Dan’s for some time now, but we finally got a chance to meet while Dan was giving the presentation that we are about to showcase on this episode. 

I will let Dan introduce himself in a moment, but today he is going to lay out the groundwork for all of you listening interested in build the marketing technology stack of your dreams: 

Integrated, Powerful, Seamless. 

We discuss analytics, data enrichment, sales automation, tagging, lead scoring… and much more. 

Dan and I discuss; 

1 – The 21st-century stack and the components within it (hint, it’s much larger than you think).

2 – Dan’s interpretation of automated lead scoring and his favorite intent scoring sequence.

3 – What is “Radar” for mobile and how is it used for personalized marketing…

4 – The Real Thread stack case study.

5 – What does taxonomy means to your stack?

And much more… 


Transcript of our conversation:

For the way that we think about ultimately building a stack as a concept not only the data pipeline but a concept known as data Recycling and that’s the fact of instead of having one source of Truth for all of your data. Basically, what you’re trying to do is mirror your data across as many systems as possible.

So that way you can leverage as much data as you can across the entire stack.

Hello. This is Alex Glen your host of the marketing automation discussion. Well, To another episode packed with actionable advice on what to do with your Tech stack. My guest today is none other than Dan Maga Dan is the CEO and founder of effing amazing. He is the CEO and founder of the National Association of marketing technology.

He is the CEO and co-founder of UTM dot IO and he was a growth Mentor for 500 startups, but what. And is for us he is the presenter of what I found to be the most actionable presentation around marketing technology, Dan and I go into depth with regards to the 21st-century stack and the components within it a hint.

It’s much larger than you think. I’ve been a huge fan of dance for quite some time now, but we finally got a chance to meet while Dan was giving the very presentation that this show is about which we will link in the show notes. I will let Dan and. Some self in a moment. But today he is going to lay out the groundwork for all of you listening and how to build the proper technology stack for your marketing initiatives integrated powerful seamless.

We discuss analytics data enrichment sales automation tagging lead scoring. And much more remember all of this is in a video if you had to automated dot AF the link in the show notes and you can watch the slides will buy as Dan talks, but without further delay, let’s welcome Dan to the show.

Welcome to thumb marketing automation description. Here’s your host my all right, Dan well. We start with your bio. What’s going on in Dan’s World? Yeah, so I’m Dan McGann the CEO founder of f an amazing and UT m dot IO, I’ve been in the marketing space for about 20 years now, so I have a long history of working inside marketing. But typically the view of the world that I have is really from the marketing technology and marketing analytics front.

So had a lot of experience working on those fronts and people remember me and my days when I was ahead of marketing at kissmetrics, some people are always responsible for the growth that coding school, but I just worked at a bunch of different places and now with f ma. Then we get to do that as an agency.

Yeah, and I’ve been a huge fan of yours for quite some time now, but finally got a chance to meet you while you were doing the presentation that was going to actually do today on the show about the evolution of the more Tech stack and the actual formalizing of a stack that you can then use in your business.

So we’re going to give you some really tangible actionable advice on this episode and Dan is the ideal person to do this. So the first thing I want to do Dan. Give it back to you to give us the lay of the land sort of the evolution of mar, Texas spend a couple of seconds here. Just refreshing everybody’s memory on where we’re at today with more Tech.

And why were they there? Yeah, great question and great points to talk about martok is really grown. I mean exponentially over the past eight to 10 years. I mean don’t get me wrong marketing technology has been around since the 90s when I got my start in the whole entire stack but back then there was really no kind of tracking of it.

There wasn’t really a lot of stuff going on. Only a few players really in the space, but back in 2011 Scott Brinker from Chief martinek started really tracking the industry and seeing where it was going and back in 2011. They said there were about a hundred and fifty different Mar Tech tools and since then I mean things have basically nearly doubled every single year since so if you fast forward to 2013 there were over 350 tools fast forward even to 2016 there were over 3,500 different tools and when you think about the last year 2018, there was roughly   hundred different marketing.

Out there and this spans the gamut of analytics tracking to marketing automation to crms to advertising networks even specific warehousing that allows you to store your marketing data to some of the newer tools that are coming on the market more centered around customer data platforms and customer data infrastructures, and it’s been really fascinating to watch this kind of industry grow and it’s just because.

There are so much more competition and more technology coming out to be able to solve smaller and smaller problems. But what’s been most fascinating to us? Is that coming into 2019 when they did the landscape is that there was really only around 7040 tools. So we kind of seen this little bit of a taper off from what they were measuring now, even though it sounds like we’ve been growing like crazy and we’ve hit the ceiling now what really was identified was is that the technology hasn’t necessarily stopped growing.

It’s the fact that they are no longer. Individual tools that work and their own kind of Silo on with their own data. The growth is happening now is a little harder to track in the fact that people are building on top of other platforms. So you might think of Salesforce Salesforce, of course as the app exchange there are over 3,000 different apps that live inside of the app exchange that make money off of integrating it with Salesforce and Salesforce is appexchange generates a billion dollars in revenue for those companies.

But the same thing is happening when you take a Shopify when you think about many of these other platforms like Magento and even Marketo has its own app exchange the big proliferation that’s happening right now is not so much in Standalone tools, but the tools that you would install into another platform, which is really really fascinating to see.

But with that all being said there has been so much growth that we’re starting to kind of reach what’s known as like the local Maxima or even the local consolidation where we have this peak of tools. We’re at the highest point, right? There’s like 7,000 8,000 tools right now, but because there are so many tools what’s happening is the bigger companies are now stepping in and starting to acquire many of those companies.

You’ve seen people like visible who got acquired by Marketo. Then you saw Marketo get acquired by Adobe you then saw an Adobe by Magento and all of these different tools and most. Finley Tableau was acquired by Salesforce and looker was acquired by Google and this is a constant thing that’s going to happen because as these companies get so big they can no longer do their own Innovation.

They need to acquire to innovate but not only is that happening because it just can and these companies are so big the economy’s doing good but very very soon. The economy is not going to be doing nearly as well. We’ve already seen Global shakeups a little bit Argentina stock market just crashed and ultimately what’s going to happen just like every other kind of cycle is.

Going to be some sort of natural recession investment dollars will dry up dollars from revenue will dry up and then what happens naturally is company starts you. Either fail and just basically disappear or they start to fail and they get sold at a fire sale to another company and that’s really the phase that we’re headed into next and my prediction is kind of around the time of spring 2020.

You’re going to start to see the consolidation happening from an acquisition standpoint at a very very fast rate. We’ve already been seeing a ton of companies get acquired. However, after that Springtime we’re actually going to start to see a lot of these companies not be able to raise the next round of funding you’re going to start to see companies which aren’t able to make the ends meet and end up selling themselves the other companies and then we expect that transition to happen over about a three year period in between 2020 and 2023.

You’ll start to see this entire Evolution changes. So the industry is definitely going through a lot. Look at me wrong. We’re starting the National Association of martech just because the industry is roughly an 80 billion dollar a year industry. So there definitely needs to be some kind of tradition and governance and things like that but it is just a wild wild west still when we think about the marketing technology landscape.

Hashtag stack apocalypse. And well, that’s yeah, that’s perfect. Okay. So now that we are all on the same page a lot of noise. A lot of competition a lot of Acquisitions a lot of attempted consolidations. A lot of failures. The stack is a Minefield and the tools inside, you know, they could be potential landmines in your stack.

So you know, what you don’t want is to jump on board with the tool that’s not going to be around next year. So what I liked about this presentation. It is not only that you lay the groundwork for what is going on and where we’re at, but you actually gave us some very tangible advice and very sound advice and some actual players that you would recommend to be included in this dream stack when we talk about the stack.

What are we talking about Dan? Are we talking about, you know, everything from Soup To Nuts from back into the front end. I mean, what would you call a stack? Yeah, and that’s a really good question. I mean, I think the hard part for most marketers understand is that the stack is really huge and it’s probably.

Tools that they aren’t even prepared and the way that we kind of Define a marketing technology stack is any single tool that is used to either store process or manages customer data. And the reason why I say that is because your customers’ data is the most valuable asset your organization has and at the end of the day that customer data is ultimately what’s going to be used for marketing.

So when you think about personalization. I’ll let your customer data when you think about your reporting. That’s your customer data. We think about targeting and you think about segmentation or you think about being able to communicate it all requires your customer data. So we do really think that organizations should really open their eyes to understand that all of their customer data is considered to be marketing and that is really something they need to take into consideration.

So Gmail naturally that’s a piece of marketing technology to enables me to be able to communicate with my customers and my prospects to do. Now in my stack I also consider Google Sheets to be part of my marketing technology because I have a Gmail connected. I have my Gmail connected to zapier. So if I add certain people to that email it will automatically start storing the emails that are a part of it of that and that stores it into the Google sheet.

The Google sheet is then connected to zapier to send that into another tool that will end up setting them up for personalization. So what happens is anywhere that I’m storing my customer data becomes part of my marketing Technologies Even in our world. We think about tools like wistia, which are video streaming tools be part of our stack obviously 80 testing tools, like optimize the vwo WordPress, which is part of my stack when you had met me in Chicago.

We were talking about Pantheon hosting how we look at them as part of our integral marketing stack because. Without that hosting provider we wouldn’t be able to deploy our data layer on our website as quickly and this is something our marketing team now leverage has to be much more effective with their marketing is they’re familiar with the Hosting account how that stuff works.

So it is really one of those things that is kind of spread everywhere and can be a little hard and unwieldy to think of but it is anywhere you have customer data that data should be used for marketing at some point and that’s really where we start to include all these things in there. But going back to one of the things you had mentioned.

Tag stack apocalypse. I think the hardship for people to understand is because you have all of these tools that a lot of these tools are integrated together or become an Essence as we would call The Hub of part of your stack and what happens is like the industry is changing if a company was to go out of business to get acquired or anything like that.

Just imagine that you were using Marketo as the primary Hub of your stack, right? This is how you communicate with your customers. It’s how you automate Salesforce. It’s how you track them on the website. Well Marketo was just acquired by Adobe and it. B is much larger than Marketo and an adobe is not necessarily the most well known for keeping and maintaining their Acquisitions.

I mean 75% of all M A merger and Acquisitions fail. So as they start to integrate in Marketo. Well what happens to that organization? Well if Marketo goes down for a day or even two days your organization that’s using it is going to have a stack apocalypse. Your whole stack is going to fall apart.

And that’s the reason why you really do need to start thinking about what are the tools. We’re using how are we leveraging them and what happens if that tool was to either go down for a day or get Acquired and as we all probably remember not even a month and a half ago two months ago Salesforce went down for I think 18 hours and it was because one developer had wrote a bad line of JavaScript.

Well, I can tell you this. It happened on a Friday when I was to do my sales operations and I my entire organization was almost shut down for that day because we couldn’t process our customer data out of Salesforce. So really when you think about all the tools you have you do want to make sure you have a good.

Inventory of all the marketing ones. Yeah and shout out to Scott page over there at Pantheon and all the work that they’ve been doing. Thank you for that definition. And that’s a perfect one that I really like to highlight. Its the stack is comprised of any tools used to acquire store process and manage your customer.

And if you’re watching this episode there is a video that shows the presentation that Dan is referring to or we’re going to be referring to but it’s got a great visual of the sort of the data processing aspect of the stack and some of the key components of that data processing aspect and I think this is.

Such an integral part of the stack itself, you know the data and how that data is manipulated and Rich to extracted and pushed to the other aspects of your stack. So why don’t we go into that and then we’ll kind of use that as the launchpad for the sales Automation and processing the data what you do as far as actionable marketing depths with the data that you’ve processed with this aspect of the stack.

So let’s let’s talk about that real quick. Yeah, I think one concept that marketers aren’t really familiar. Earlier with and it’s more developers familiar with is this concept known as a data Pipeline and the data pipeline is ultimately just like it sound it’s a pipe that you basically it goes in a line, right and you send data through it.

And this is something that is really really popular for data engineering or even developers because they think about pipelines in that way, but it’s now something that the marketing organization really has become familiar with and the fact that you need to be able to create a data pipeline where you can send data into it and then it rolls down stream, basically.

To all of your tools and I’d have to say probably about three or four years ago. This was kind of an unknown concept at all and wasn’t really connected but with the proliferation of tools like segment or M particle or even metal router with these things called customer data platforms or customer data infrastructure.

Basically, what used to have to happen is you would have to every single time you wanted to track something on your site you had to add another JavaScript. So then if you wanted to track the somebody signed up will you have to write in each one of those different types of tools and their own language their syntax you’d have to write The Sign up event.

So as an example Google analytics, you have to write sign up and their form if you wanted to track that as a conversion you’d have to write it in AdWords and as well as in Facebook and then and in LinkedIn and then even in Pinterest and then if you wanted to track that event as well again that action in.

Animation tool you had to write it in a totally separate language as well. Those days have changed a lot because now we’ve created these tools where we send our data to and then they distribute it to other places and that’s where segment has really been one of the leaders in that space by no means.

I mean most people have no idea what segment is or even wood and particle is I mean, I just got off a call yesterday with a large company that doing a CDP study the never even heard of him particle, even though they were one of the Pioneers in the space as well. But by leveraging these tools, you can create one single pipe and it makes it much easier to add on tools and as well as integrate it but the way that we think about ultimately building a stack as a concept not only the data pipeline but a concept known as data Recycling and that’s the fact of instead of having one source of Truth for all of your data.

Basically, what you’re trying to do is mirror your data across as many systems as possible. So that way you can leverage as much data as you can across the entire stack this would mean instead of just sending Salesforce the information. We also want to make sure the data that’s in Salesforce is.

With our marketing automation tool that our marketing automation tool can send that information potentially back down that data pipeline. So that way it also updates our Analytics tool. This concept of data recycling is something that’s a little bit more modern most companies aren’t really familiar with it and you won’t really see it on the horizon of most brands for another probably three to five years just because cdp’s even though they’ve been out for seven years eight years.

Now, they’re just finally getting mainstream. This stuff does take a little bit of time to hit the main stage, but going back to it. You have to make sure that you create a consistent data pipeline for your stacked. Indicate you also then need to create process in which you can recycle the data throughout your stack to create multiple records of the truth.

And then that’s ultimately how you build these really really Advanced Stacks that can do kind of cool stuff will get to one of the cool things are stacked can do later when I give everybody an opportunity to get a free copy of my book and you’ll get the test. Like what our SMS bot is like and then our SMS bot will do all kinds of cool things that you’ll be able to interact with the we’ll talk a little bit more about that later.

Thank you, and that’s great. So we want to make sure. Aware of sort of this 21st century stack that you mentioned. So, you know this this new world of data enrichment and all the tools that work together really well to produce what is not only accurate data, but is more data than you would ever dream of trying to capture in a funnel and then acting on that data through the key components of the staff that will go ahead.

And mention here in a moment, but let’s talk real quickly about the data enrichment layer and where that is today. Yeah data in Richmond is super awesome and super creepy all at the same time. I have to say I’m a huge fan of data enrichment and I’m very happy that I live in the United States of America where we can get away with it.=

Because if you’re in the UK and Richmond is not the same thing, but there are really cool tools that you can bolt onto your marketing stack and if you’re using a tool like segments, there’s multiple enrichment providers that you can just with. The verse which integrate in with your stack and basically how those things work is if you’re using a segment tool or any even just accessing through the API based upon your phone number your email.

Even your first last name first and last name including a zip code. What can happen is with limited information. We can paying a third party API and then it will send us back a payload of all the values at knows about you. So some of the things when we think about a company like clearbit, which is a commonly used enrichment tool in the B2B SAS face.

Clear bit knows everything about the company that you work for so it would send back the thermographic data just based on an email. So if I sent clear bit Dan and EffinAmazin.com, it would send back that we are a 20-plus person company. We do over two million dollars a year in Revenue. We have six job openings out right now.

We’ll also be able to tell you all kinds of other information such as where’s our company located and that’s what’s called Firma. Graphic data. On top of that not only can do thermographic. It can do the demographic. So not only does it know that Hey. Listen, I’m Dan at EffinAmazin.com. But I’m Dan McGaw.

I’ve had the company for five years it can tell you all kinds of facts about me including my title. Where am I living? What are my social profiles and then depending upon the integration tool or enrichment tool? You’re using Experian will tell you what I care about and how much money I even make which gets really really creepy but.

The last one that a lot of people don’t know about is of course is the Techno graphic information. So with tools like clear, but they also will tell you the Technologies I use on my site which is a helpful indicator for me. So if you’re a company like I’ve been amazing, we have autopilot and segment and Salesforce all installed on our website and just based upon my email clear.

It will send that information back to me. I use that for my lead scoring model. I use that for my personalization and I’m really able to get a ton of information about somebody without ever having to ask them for anything. But their email and clear of it is just one provider in the space you have clear bit.

If not long ago, which is more focused on B to C customers in the consumer space. They also know like what you read. What magazines are you ordering? What type of products do you like? Then? You have companies that are like Experian who we all know monitor all of our credit card transactions.

So they know the most about us which can get a little creepy. But you also have some interesting providers like full-contact which Focus much more on the social space and then you have some newer players in the space, which we have just found out by about there’s a company out there called Buzz board and what they do is small business enrichment.

So if you’re looking for all of the little bakeries that are based in Orlando, Florida that do between. Thousand and two million dollars a year in Revenue, they’ll surface that insight to you and then also be able to tell you the actual person at the company you should be talking to so with these enrichment sources if you basically build them into your stack you can now use this for personalization for targeting segmentation.

Not only that stuff, but you can also use it for your reporting and analyzation so you can get a better understanding of your customers that do convert compared don’t convert. There’s just a lot of really creepy stuff that comes along with that and I’d have to say the last one. That’s probably one of the most creepy ones is a tool called radar and radar basically allows you to do all of your geofencing on a mobile app and enable you to do really cool things.

So Burger King used radar and in tandem with nparticle on their mobile app, so if you were using the Burger King app and you drove within a hundred meters of the McDonald’s you would get a push notification saying that you have five minutes to claim your free Whopper at Burger King right now. And this campaign was extremely successful for them talking wrong.

It wasn’t necessarily the easiest to get a Whopper within 5 minutes, but in most cases there is a Burger King across the street from McDonald’s. So these types of Technologies are able to do all kinds of things and enrich all kinds of stuff. So it’s just a really really fascinating yet. Sometimes creepy space.

Awesome. Yeah, and I do want to talk real quickly about CRM and Lead scoring before we get into the front end and to do this. I’ll just have you mentioned sort of your favorite lead scoring. For scoring leads or your favorite automation for scoring leads and just give a quick sort of painted picture for those who are listening.

Yeah, and with lead scoring. The best thing that you really need to do is want it needs to be two-sided one. You need to focus it on. What do we know about the person and their company and things along though the things we know about the entity. But also what are the actions that that entity is doing and what we need to do is make sure that we are not only tracking are they the VP are they working at a big enough company do they have the right technology on their site that would make sense.

But at the same time you need to look at one of the actions is person may take on your site and this is important because we’re not always going to be able to know everything about a person. And even though they’re in an anonymous visitor, we can still build a lead scorer. So if somebody views the cart, obviously you give them more points.

If some of the views of product you give them more points if somebody visits the support articles about buying something, of course, you can give them more points. So you really want to make sure you take that stuff into consideration. And one thing that I haven’t shared with a lot of people is there’s a new type of intent scoring which is becoming more and more popular as companies are sharing their data.

So Publishers like Forbes and Insider and Business Insider, Are they share their traffic data with other companies and one of the key companies are doing that with is a company known as bum Bora and what Bambara does is enables an organization to know whether and somebody or some other type of company has intent.

So if you’re doing research on how to buy marketing technology or research on how to buy a CRM and you happen to come across a Business Insider polled. Well Bambara will take that information and then send a trigger to their clients making them aware that you’re interested in crms. So not only are there now the scores about behavior and as well as the identities, there’s also intense scoring which is becoming more and more popular.

And once again this goes back to why I’m so happy. I live in the United States because we can actually do that stuff in the UK. There’s just no way in hell you can get away with it. Just fascinating things you can do with lead scoring. Yeah, so layering data on top of itself and finding new data sources that can give you some more interesting appearances of that customer drawing in those other apis making sure that you have a nice well-rounded image of what that Prospect looks like providing some sort of automated lead scoring and you do that internally.

Using autopilot. I saw and really robust lead scoring setup sure. It wasn’t easy to create so definitely take a pause and check out tanza lead scoring set up in autopilot. It’s pretty cool moving on here. So we’re sort of out of the the back end out of the data capture and processing side of this presentation and let’s talk about the front-end.

Let’s talk about what to do with that data. So let’s talk about the front end and how that setup. Yeah, I mean the big thing is trying to figure out how do you store customer data, which is going to be valuable towards your customer journey and at the end of the day what we always try to make sure that we teach our clients and as well as just people in general is that whoever has the best customer experience is typically the one who wins and that’s because the customer is going to buy from that great customer experience and potentially come back because of that experience.

So when we’re trying to track all these things that are happening on the website or even from third parties, what were ultimately trying to do is build a really rich customer data. About that person so we can then personalize things to them. So with all of these different actions one, we know what types of pages on the site that somebody has viewed, you know, what types of products if somebody is viewed.

So if you were to go to Old Navy.com and of course look around their site, you might stumble across their shoes page that has different shoes on it or even flip-flops well by storing that information. I’m now able to Target my messaging moving forward knowing that at one point you had an interest in flip-flops or shoes and I’m able to store that and then deliver certain discounts or.

To you which may get you back to actually buy a pair of flip-flops for shoes. And because this is a one to one match with what that customer had done this of course is going to get you much more likely to engage and one of the customers that we have here. We work with a brand called real thread.com their online t-shirt printing company.

So they put a lot of t-shirts for big companies like palantir Dropbox Amazon. They also print for a lot of the clothing lines as well. But ultimately they’re printing swag shirts right now when we think about the people that they communicate with their. There’s a couple different personas right you have graphic designers that are coming to the site because they’re the ones who actually end up having to design the shirt for the marketing person.

You also have apparel designers that come in and then you also have a lot of times you have CEOs and Founders that come to the site and with each one of those personas. They have a different buying process. They also different things they care about and as these people are coming to this site what we want to do is figure out unique ways to identify which Persona they are.

One of the examples that we had talked about in our presentation was with real thread when people would come to the site we get a lot of leads people are ultimately downloading our resources or giving us their email on the blog. The first thing we’re going to do is we’re going to send them an email saying Hey, listen, we don’t want to spam you with crap content.

So just let us know who what your role is and we’ll make sure to send you content that you care about and in that email there’s five buttons. They can click on whether their business owner designer all of those things and when they click on that they’re taking back to the website. There’s some utm’s in the URL so that when they hit the site it saves that information in the in the Google analytics account, but we also get that information in our automation tool and then we store that as a value on their their identity in the automation tool and as well as.

ERM and what makes this so important? Is that moving forward instead of me sending them emails, which they don’t care about I can actually make sure that I segment them into the emails they would care about and segment them out of emails. They don’t care about so as an example as a business owner.

I want to know how to be able to print my shirts on a budget. I want to know how to be able to save money when doing it. I want to know how to best price my shirt if maybe I’m in the apparel industry. But the last thing I care about is Pantone colors of the damn shirt, like as a CEO, I don’t care about Pantone.

That’s what my designer cares about. But an interesting take on that is the fact that a graphic designer. Maybe they don’t care about Pantone either because that’s not the world that they live in Pantone is specifically a type of ink that’s used on fabrics and things in the real world. But if you’re working from a computer, you’re working in RGB red green blue or CMYK, which I don’t even know what that means.

But either way I know what it is. So by knowing the. Different personas were able to say hey, you know what? You’re a CEO probably don’t want to send you an e-mail talking about how to select the right Pantone from your shirt because I’m just not going to care. I don’t even know what a Pantone is.

But if I end that apparel designer, I should probably get the Pantone email. I probably shouldn’t get the email that talks about. How do you maximize profits off of your T-shirt sales? Just because the designer is less worried about that. And what we’ve learned is the less email you send people the more likely you are to get them to open especially if it’s highly targeted.

Instead of just spamming all of your users and hoping they all read the email that only 10% of them care about send less emails to more people increase your frequency of the email sends in general, but just send them to smaller batches of users because you can now truly targeted at those people.

Yeah, and you do have a call touchpoint in there as well with call Ray. Also shout-out to Bridget and CallRail.com team. I love those guys. And now I want to end this call and end this recording with a full glimpse of kind of where the stack is headed. And anything that you want to mention that we didn’t already mention.

I know we cover the back and the front end and some case studies and obviously what you use and how you use it. But is there any real advice that you would give a SAS company that is having stack issues. Maybe they’re in transition. Maybe they’re growing too. Rapidly, and they’re migrating crm’s.

But what is the main piece of advice the Dan would provide any software company that needs to sort of collect and organize their stack. Yeah, and that’s a really great question. I mean the big the big bit of advice that we always give companies is that your marketing experience in your marketing technology is only as cool as the people that you hire to run it and you need to make sure that you’re really hiring good people to run your marketing technology.

Don’t go hire a branding and Communications marketer to run your marketing technology because at the end of the day, it’s still technology and it still requires a technical marketer to run it. So ultimately you need to make sure that you’re focused on building really cool shit and you need to make sure that you have good people that are going to be there to run it.

So if you have somebody who’s newer and they need to be trained up, of course, we do offer an online course, which I would love to see people go. To be able to help them out. I also just launched my new book called build cool shit. So definitely would love to see people check that out. If anybody is interested in getting their free copy.

All you have to do is text amazing 24159159011. And what that was is if you just text the word amazing 24159159011. You’ll actually interface with our text bot which will be able to collect all of your information. Listen to its exact prompts do not do more than it asks you to do just do. Exactly what it says.

It will be a good experience and then we’ll get you set up so that way you can get a free copy of the book but just add probably the second biggest piece of advice that we have to give companies is your taxonomy also known as your data dictionary or your schema doesn’t matter which version you call it is the most important thing and that is ultimately the words that which we’re going to call actions and attributes we know about people.

That taxonomy is the most important part of your marketing technology because you get that part wrong your stack won’t be civilly talk to each other. Nobody will know what anything means and that taxonomy is going to be really really important and it’s something that we don’t hear enough in the marketplace.

We don’t hear a lot of people talking about taxonomy, but really the backbone of your entire stack and the success of your customers experience is based upon having a good taxonomy. To make sure things that can communicate great advice Dan and again, I’ll just repeat that for anybody. You didn’t get it because it is very very cool if you haven’t done it yet, but text “amazing” to 415-915-9011.

It’s all there for you. So check that out build cool shit. Text “amazing” to 415-915-9011. Get your copy read it followed. Tell everyone if you could Dan, I mean I have your LinkedIn profile Link in the show notes, of course, but where can they go to find out more about you and in Connect? Yeah, the best place to connect with us.

Of course is effinamazing.com. You can visit us on our site check out all the stuff there. I am most active on LinkedIn. So if you just go to LinkedIn and search for the last name Maga, no are in it MCG. Aw, there will probably be like 15 other Dan what goes on there but you’ll be able to find me.

I’m the prettiest one of all. And that is probably where I am most active. I don’t know why but I suck at Twitter. Are you any good at Twitter? I don’t I don’t tweet I haven’t tweeted in. No, I mean unless it’s automated from one of them. Yeah, I put out a medium post and it sweets it but no. From B to B from software side of things if you’re dealing with software companies, you know and you deal with the team’s behind those those people are too busy to be on Twitter.

So I’m not but Dan well, you know, thanks for the time. It’s been a pleasure and I am hugely in your debt for this recording. Everybody’s going to be excited to get it and to take action on it. So I’ll leave it up to everybody else. If you have any questions for Dan, you know, go to F an amazing shoot him to him on LinkedIn connect with him and definitely check out his book.

Any last words Dan I will talk to you offline. Sounds good, man. Great to have everybody come and talk. Thanks for having me. All right, buddy. Well, we’ll see each other hopefully sooner than later and I’ll chat with you mean time. I’m like, thanks so much.