Technology is playing a much bigger role in hiring decisions. So, as a CEO or hiring manager, how can you keep up with the changing times and continue to build better teams as more capital for such resources are being spent on technology?

* Do hiring managers need to have a pulse on the technology to hire properly?

* Should you start utilizing hiring firms or recruiters in your search?

* Do you train your current staff and hope for the best or hire more? Hire new?

These are not easy questions to answer, so I will enlist the help of Jessica Minasian – founder of Magnetic Hype.

Last week, Jessica and I were chatting about how her clients and colleagues go about building, and hiring for management of, their future tech stacks – what pain points, mistakes and dilemmas her and I see and experience most often.

Needless to say, we agreed it needed to be recorded for the public.

In a few minutes, you will hear Jessica and review:

  1. What factors you are more than likely not considering before you start new martech builds for your organization.
  2. Examples of when martech operations go wrong and why.
  3. How to properly prepare your team and leadership for a new martech build project.  
  4. And how to decide between hiring to fill needs around the martech project vs outsourcing to a expert and or agency.

Jessica deals with 50 of these projects a year, so  her and I have spent considerable time outlining what we’ve seen to go over in this episode for you today.

It’s long, but I assure you every minute is valuable if you are undergoing a tech stack change or about to.

So without further delay, let’s get started answer the question: “How do you go about building the martech stack for the future of your organization?”

The thought exercise in stack decision making…

This is the recommended thought exercise to perform before you buy and build any new marketing or sales saas:

marketing tech stack decisions

Step 1:

Collect your team members in front of a whiteboard and create 4 columns on the board:

Column 1 = What new processes / strategies / amounts you are going to add.
Column 2 = Who you have on the team now and what they will cover (processes).
Column 3 = What tools you are keeping.
Column 4 = Now, look at the first 3 columns and create a 4th column that lists who you need to hire to fill the holes based on your new needs.

This will show you what you have now and therefore what holes you have to fill to execute the future state of marketing ops.

Step 2:

Now that you know what you need to solve for, it’s time to determine whether to Hire, Outsource (agency / freelancer / consultant), or use Software/SaaS to fill those holes. Back on the whiteboard, draw another 4 columns: 

Column 1 = Hire – what jobs you need to hire for or task to someone on the team.
Column 2 = Agency – What tasks are best outsourced to a firm or agency.
Column 3 = Contractor – Tasks for a contractor or freelancer.
Column 4 = Software – What can be done with software.

Take the holes you need to fill and write or place them to one of the 4 columns. It’s important to have everyone’s input on this as you go through it. You should have a list of tasks for software by the end.

Step 3:

Look to a consultant or an in-house expert in the future state of the stack to lead the choosing and implementation based on what you’ve uncovered in this exercise.

After you have gone through this exercise, you and the team have a much clearer perception of (a) what you are missing, (b) the options available to fill those gaps, and (c) you have involved everyone in moving those individual needs cards into a column that makes the most sense (i.e. everyone agrees).


Show Notes:

Personality does not seem to matter for internal teams – BUT  five key characteristics of enhanced teams:

  1. Safety: teams feel safe to take risks
  2. Dependability: people have your back
  3. Structure and clarity: everyone understands the expectations
  4. Meaning: people have a sense of purpose – “why they get out of bed”
  5. Impact: see reults

    • Organizations are now spending 29 percent of the total marketing expense budget on technology, up from 22 percent just a year earlier.
    • ecosystems trending away from all-in-one marketing suites vs. best-of-breed point solutions.
    • In 74% of enterprise organizations, martech is primarily managed by marketing and in 26% of cases, there’s a dedicated martech leader and team.


Factors to consider while putting together your stack management team:

  1. Obviously budget, timeframe etc… But also these are typically-not thought about early enough:
  2. You don’t know what you don’t know…
    1. The person hiring may not know enough to hire for martech
  3. Ai and ML – as we move into the new world, stacks are increasingly more capable of performing dynamic/automated tasks. Which at first thought, would seem to mean less skills necessary to manage them… but…
    1. What are you going to need to implement to keep up with your customers expectations around dynamic content, bots, messaging, returning queries, one-to-one experiences…
    2. What technology bolstering “Ai” features is really necessary?
    3. As your data grows, so will data silo’s so you may need to implement Ai strategies to help ensure proper organization and implementation of data.  
    4. – All of these are reasons you will need Ai skills sets on your team or in your consultancy networks.
  4. Which internal teams and stakeholders need data and information from the stack?
    1. And who is the liason for that process? And how?
  5. Geography and your CEO/CMO/CTO’s opinion on distributed teams…
  6. Your CEO/CMO/CTO’s opinion on utilizing consultants/agencies…
  7. Inherent biases around whether partners/vendors can play nice.
    1. Similarly – leadership thinking agencies/consultants would step on toes and cause mutiny on the team.


The Question we are going to answer in this episode is = How to go about building out your future stack with consideration around the points we just mentioned?


Scenarios / who should listen…

Your current stack is more or less your old/startup stack.

Now, you need to make some critical decisions simultaneously – technology and personnel to manage said tech.

Example 1: Your leadership brings biases based on former tech stacks with them and forces those on the team – without allowing for research, diligence and really choosing the best for the use case…

  • Leadership has relationships from historic org’s they were in with dinosaur SaaS they get sold back into and you as the marketing team/lead have to make it work – which limits your abilities and kills your bandwidth.
  • IF they had the experiences with that stack, chances are it was 5+ years ago, which means it is more than likely irrelevant.

Example 2: You hire a lead marketer who doesn’t know your business well enough yet – personnel, strategy, ICPs, operations… nuances etc…

  • And, they want to make an impact quickly so they rush into trying to build something they can call ‘theirs’

Example 3: You have a team who has been with you since the beginning, and you task them with the stack rebuild.

  • They have not run anything else for a while, sometimes never.
  • So they have never worked in a stack.

^ In each of these situations, you started with the people and then

Now let’s talk about a different process we recommend

Jessica’s experience with her clients’ processes around tech stack development:

  • Have a stack and scramble to find someone


JESSICA’s strategy around:

(a) how to find the best agency/consultant) for the stack setup/advise,

and (b) the timing and process of hiring who will run that stack continuously – that could a mix of internal + agency + contractors.

It’s below:

It starts with teams seeing technology as an extension of their team – almost like a team member. A –

    • Great teams start with great people.
    • Ask experts or people you trust (employees) to recommend candidates.
    • Ask other business owners you know how they built their marketing teams and if they have anyone you can interview \
    • Always get experts to do the hiring because if you do not know the position or technology you’re hiring for, you can make a costly mistake.
      • Like high turnover or someone leaving within a few months of starting
  • B – It depends on how large your team is.
    • Enterprise teams usually have a mix of all 3 internal teams, agency and contractors all working together.
    • There is this misconception that agencies don’t play nice with other vendors. However, if everyone has the same marketing goals to build a stellar team, it will all figure itself out.
    • For smaller teams, it comes down to projects and technology. Will the project be a few months or last years? If it will last a short time, then hiring project per project  – agency or contractor will help offset the cost of resources.
    • If the automation technology will become a staple then consider hiring a consulting firm to take over the complexities until you can find the right automation person


Do teams build technology or does technology build teams?

Does technology really drive everything we do? Even hiring practices. Should it?

And if so, how can we change hiring practices to produce better teams driven for success in the new world?

What is the best way a CEO, Director or Manager can keep up with the changing times and build better teams?…  

  • Hiring Practices
    • Teams using keyword searches for technology  
    • Long gone are the days where one person can do it all
      • Do hiring managers need to have a pulse on the technology to hire properly?
      • Should you start utilizing hiring firms or recruiters in your search?
      • Do you train your current staff and hope for the best or hire more? Hire new?
  • Technology: new arms being added to business all the time, how to keep up?
  • What if you do not have a team to support your technology?
    • Does that stop a company from getting the platform/solution?
    • Do you quickly build an A-Team? How?

Where is this all going?

Once you have a team that can build, operate and maintain the technology, does it take over?

  • Does technology then drive the success of the business?
  • Do certain priorities not get completed because the “system just can’t do it?”
  • Can technology be seen as an extension of your team? As if it is a team member all on its own?
  • How can teams overcome technology limitations quickly?
  • Do leaders need to understand and know the technology they’re managing?

Building a Team of the Future

Teams need to be a “Jill of All Traits.” They must have varying skills in technology, communication, and leadership practices. Leaders can envision future teams as individuals who can do it all but should not be spread too thin. That’s why hiring often and early is good practice. Having leaders who understand the technology they’re managing doesn’t hurt either.

  1. Hire for the future
  2. Continuously train the team
  3. Promote from within so leaders know the technology
  4. New World: Technology drives teams



Lift and shift of tech = agency you trust

Partner agency to keep up with the stack, optimizations etc…


Where to find it…Ideas

  • experts section for automation experts
  • Mason and Frank for candidates withenterprise martech experience
  • “Marktech recruitment agencies”